Danny: Welcome everybody to the Courageous Ambassador podcast. Each episode we invite professors, pastors, leaders, and ministry servants to explore what it means to reflect Christ in their unique roles and calling. I’m your host, Danny Garcia. I am the campus pastor on the campus of Grace Christian University. Today we have an awesome guest. She is a master and has a master’s in library and information science. She is serving as the librarian here at Grace Christian University. I am honored and glad and excited to welcome Erinn Huebner here today to have a conversation. Thanks for coming, Erinn.
Erinn: Thanks, Danny. Thanks for having me.
Danny: Yeah, of course. So I have always been someone who’s like a bookworm. Every time we go downtown, me and my wife, and we pass a bookstore, no matter what we’re doing, I’m always jumping in. I want to be there. I want to be present in that area because I just love books. I like the feeling of grabbing a new book. I am someone who judges the cover of a book. So if I see a book that I’m like, “That looks so cool,” I’ll grab it. I’ll flip through it. I love the feel of it.
An Unexpected Path to Librarianship
Danny: I’m curious what made you want to step into this role, this passion of yours to be a librarian, to do something in regard to serving students, and what, how did that bring you here at Grace?
Erinn: Yeah, well, I’ve always loved reading, but I didn’t really know that I wanted to be a librarian until one of our previous librarians told me I did. So I started my professional life in the human services field of work. So I worked in workforce development first for people who were receiving unemployment, and then I switched over to the same thing but for welfare reform. So I was working in a really high-stress, hard-to-serve area, and my company lost its contract with the state. And so I could either apply and interview to keep the job, maybe keep the job that I was burning out in, or I could find something new to do. And so I was kind of at a point in my life where I was like, I really want to do something in a Christian field. I wanted to work in a Christian environment. It was really difficult to be able to express my faith and share my faith in that particular role. It was very secular and just kind of a really difficult environment to work in. So I applied for a job at Grace because I went to a Grace church, and I was completely unqualified for the job I applied for. But because of that, I found out there was an opening in the library. And the previous librarian, really encouraged me to step into this role, and then Grace helped me pay for my master’s degree. It was, you know, the job was contingent on getting a master’s degree. And I realized I just had fallen in love with librarianship and everything that it involved. So I kind of accidentally became a librarian, but now it’s my vocation.
Danny: Yeah. And happy accident, right?
Erinn: Happy accident.
Danny: Yeah. You’ve been here, how many years have you been here?
Erinn: 11 years.
Danny: Wow. That was a long time.
Erinn: Yeah.
Danny: That’s pretty cool.
Erinn: Yeah. And I’m not even close to done yet.
Danny: Yeah. So you didn’t even like that; that wasn’t even like an initial direction you were kind of shooting towards. You kind of did that shift, and then it was like, God just opened the door for you, and you just stepped into that.
Erinn: Exactly.
Bridging Social Work and Librarianship
Danny: So with your past experience and then jumping into this new role, what kind of stuff did you bring in from that old experience into this new role? Were there some similarities? What are some differences and challenges?
Erinn: It’s surprising how much librarianship can be like social work in some ways. Just, you know, you’re helping people who need help, right? Helping them find the resources, helping them judge what’s a good resource or a bad resource, and learning those skills to operate in their life and their career and their education. So there is a lot of crossover, actually, in terms of, like, what I learned from social work and what I do now. But it’s just really, really nice to be able to see students come to Christ and grow in Christ, in addition to the practical skills and stuff that we’re teaching them.
More Than Just Books
Danny: Yeah. Anytime you see a librarian that’s like in a movie or in a show or something like that, they’re always like the angry lady that’s behind the desk and then pops out of nowhere and tries to tell people to shush or be quiet. I feel like you’re not that. You’re very engaged, and it’s like you walk alongside students. You’re very present in student life and are engaging and like offering different resources and stuff like that. What kind of resources, what kind of projects, and what kind of things do you do on a daily basis to help students in their path with academics and the collegiate environment?
Erinn: Yeah. Well, we don’t only provide resources; we provide the instruction and support that goes along with that. So we offer tutoring, we offer writing support, and we are starting a new coaching initiative in the coming fall. And so I kind of view my role; professionally I’m a librarian, but vocationally I’m a missionary. Like my job, my care for students doesn’t end at five when I leave the office. It’s very much more of a lifestyle or a passion, a vocation. Like what I do, it’s not just a job. So kind of the way that missionaries never really step off the clock. When they’re there, I care about students and their holistic formation and not just whether they found the right book or what their grades are and that kind of thing.
Building a Culture of Collaboration
Danny: Yeah. I’ve definitely seen that. I mean, with the student workers that you have brought in and just like the relationships that you’ve built, you’re very close to those students and those people around you. And you always put yourself out there to go and, like, go to the students that are always there in the library and, like, be present. And like there’s a certain kind of culture that you’ve built.
Erinn: That’s the goal.
Danny: Yeah. And so like what kind of things did you do when you stepped into this role to kind of build that, to capitalize on that?
Erinn: One of the things we really wanted to do was kind of shift the spaces in the library. It’s built in a way that’s kind of difficult to be social or collaborative. It’s kind of an old-school library building where you just have, like, a lot of divisions and a lot of stacks of books. So one of the things that I started to do was try and focus on electronic resources, where it’s really good to do that. Keeping a lot of the book resources that we need, but some of the ones that might be outdated or are better accessed electronically are moving, shifting those to electronic resources, and weeding some of the physical books to open more space for students to be able to build that collaborative environment in the library rather than just like a super quiet study space. We have quiet study spaces, but so it was a shift in the idea of the way that the spaces worked in the library that was one of the bigger initiatives I took on.
Generational Shifts in Student Learning
Danny: Have you seen, like, because you’ve been here for a while and you’ve seen different generations pop in and out, different cultures, different communities, all that stuff? Like what kind of changes have there been, and have you seen them throughout that? What kind of interactions have changed with what you’re doing and also how students learn and how students grow and interact with each other? Obviously there’s the technological aspect of it and the digital age and all that stuff. But then there’s the engaging and authentic and wanting to. I’ve heard students say, I want to read. I want to grab a book and read it and have it there and present it in front of me. But then there are other students who are like, “I can’t sit down and do that.” I need something like an audiobook. I need something that is going to help me in the way that I learned best. So like what kind of, what has been your experience and the interaction that you’ve seen during your time in the library?
Erinn: Yeah. Students, every freshman class is different, and they bring different needs and different vibes. Students now, I feel like they crave authenticity, and they crave that in-person experience, but they’re afraid to ask for it or reluctant to ask for it. So I found that it’s been a lot more work to get students to come into the library or ask for the help that they know they need or maybe they don’t know they need. And it’s kind of like just drawing that out of the students now is a little bit more difficult than it was when I started. But yeah, they do; a lot of them want those physical books to have in front of them. And we try with some of our electronic resources to kind of replicate that. If you’re reading on a tablet, it’s a little bit closer to that book experience than if you’re on a computer screen. We try to provide a different mode of access for students who need those different things.
Creating Welcoming Spaces Through Events
Danny: Yeah. You touched up on a point that made me think about some things that you do throughout the year, especially at the beginning of the year, where you had all these events that were planned out to get students to come and be engaged and present in libraries. What made you think that would be a good idea? What’s the thing that popped up where you’re like, Man, I need students to be present because they’re so used to being inclusive or anti-social? I needed to stay in my room. What was that kind of click point of I need to create these events to make it a want for students to be present here?
Erinn: Right. Yeah. Early in the year, we do a game night that’s not as academically focused to just kind of get them into the building and feel comfortable and provide the snacks and do the things that make them kind of associate the library with good things in the back of their mind. And then toward the middle and end of the semester, we switch focus to some of those more academic events where it’s more focused on getting the help that you need, using the resources you need, and getting assignments done. And hopefully that kind of provides the draw for students to just get their foot in the door. And then, kind of by the time they roll into those high-pressure points in the semester, they’re more willing to ask for help because they know us and they feel more comfortable in the building.
Danny: Yeah. And that kind of goes against the grain of what people expect from, like, the librarian or a library, like going for being present. It’s like this is a place where you need to be quiet. And like that, obviously, like have some respect for people who are studying spaces for those who like quiet. But a lot of students realize that they kind of like to be in those small groups.
Erinn: Yeah. Where they don’t have to be as quiet or alone in what they’re doing.
The Power of Mirroring and Community Study
Danny: So we try to provide spaces for everybody’s individual study habits. I remember when I was a student, I liked going in any kind of social environment. I love being around people. I’m a people person. And I found that really very quickly because I didn’t learn like in high school. I didn’t learn what worked best for me. And I learned very quickly through my academic advisor and all these people who helped me out with things that I need to find the place that I work best. And I always found that I worked best when I was in a social environment, when I was around people. And I remember going into the library and just, like, scanning around trying to find people to sit with so I can get my work done. Because I knew if I just sat down and just did my own thing, I would make an excuse to scroll on my phone, or, you know, I’ll get distracted and work on something else that I shouldn’t be working on. But for some reason, when I’m with people and have that community, I’m locked in. And I get more work done.
Erinn: Yeah.
Danny: And notice that, like, that is very much the culture.
Erinn: Yeah.
Danny: In the library, like, you walk in and there are people sitting on their own or in their groups or, you know, just working on stuff. Immediately, when you walk in, you have a person to your left to greet you and ask how you’re doing, it’s very hospitable.
Erinn: Yeah, that’s one of our core values.
Danny: Yeah. The first thing is hospitality. We want everyone to feel welcome in the building. And like they belong there. And then that collaboration environment is intentional. And what you’re describing is actually like a psychological trick called mirroring.
Erinn: Oh, if you’re working with someone who’s also working, like you mirror each other in that, and you don’t have to talk or be doing the same thing or for the same class. But just looking up and being like, Oh, they’re working; I can continue to work too. It’s very intentional to do it that way.
Danny: I didn’t know that was the thing that I was doing. That’s pretty cool.
Erinn: So you fell into one of the more effective study strategies by accident.
Danny: Yeah. And I mean, you’re instilling that with just the culture that you’re building up from the ground up and just trying to work out what fits best with these students and what needs that they have that you can offer to them and all that.
Navigating Challenges
Danny: So with all the great stuff and everything that you like, you’re doing phenomenal work. What are some of the challenges that you have faced throughout the year that you have faced with different student groups and just, you know, just culture, like shifting and all that?
Erinn: Yeah, some of the challenges I feel like in librarianship are that kind of feeling that books are dead. You know, like technology is always advancing. And so we’re very intentional about keeping paper books a thing. And in some areas of study, they’re just not being digitized as fast. So you have to have the paper book, especially in that Bible, philosophy, and theology area. It’s just not digitized as quickly as it is in some of the other areas of study. So the fact is that whether it’s digital or on paper, like, information will always be there. And someone will always need someone else to help them interpret that and to access it and to understand how it works. And so the librarian’s role is always changing, and it’s changing really fast. But it’s always going to be there, because the information is always going to be there. And the people who need help discerning between good information and bad information or even just need help figuring out how to get to the information. That’s what our role is going to be, no matter what the medium is.
The Community of Christian Librarians
Danny: Yeah. Is there, like, a librarian kind of culture, or, like, I don’t know, what do you go to to kind of see, like, “Oh, what is this library doing?” Or what is this? Like, what is that? Is there something out there like that?
Erinn: Yeah, I’m a member of the Association of Christian Librarians. I actually was just elected vice president of the association in June.
Danny: Wow, congrats.
Erinn: Thank you. That’s awesome.
Danny: And so it’s a worldwide network of Christian librarians. And, a lot of us work in higher education. But some of us work in the public sector. And some of us work in specialized libraries. And some of us, but a lot of us, work in higher education.
Erinn: Yeah.
Danny: And so we have a conference every year. And then we have groups, interest groups, and listservs. So we have the ability to ask each other questions and feel ideas off of one another and stay in touch with other people who practice that from the biblical worldview.
Erinn: Yeah.
Danny: So that’s really been encouraging.
Erinn: I see someone like me, who’s not involved in that area, would never know that. So that’s pretty cool to discover that there’s like a community within a community within a community that’s like, building and like working, asking those questions like, How can we serve people best? How can we serve our students best at our university at different schools? How can we be present and walk alongside people to show them that learning and reading and engaging in different academic tools and resources is a good thing? It’s exciting.
Success Stories
Danny: Yeah. Like I said before, I did not learn how to study well.
Erinn: Yeah.
Danny: And I’ll give a shout-out to David Green, who is working in a business office. He was my academic mentee my freshman year because I needed it. I didn’t know I didn’t know how to study. I didn’t know how to take work home and do it on my own and actually sit down and be like, okay, this is how I work best. This is what I need to do. This is the research I need to do. I needed someone to sit there with me and allow me to get it done and show me how to do it well and give me the resources. I know there are a lot of challenges with that. Sometimes students don’t want that.
Erinn: Right.
Danny: What are some of those success stories that you have of students who kind of went into it, maybe like me at the beginning, like a little begrudgingly, like, “I just wasted my time,” to them being like, “This is something I needed.” I’m so happy that it was offered to me. Yeah. Do you have any of those?
Erinn: Yeah, I’ve seen a few of those. I started taking classes at Grace after I became a librarian. My whole education has been in the public schools. And I’m a Bible college librarian. So I needed to; I felt like I needed to kind of like go through some of that Bible college training that my students were going through to better understand what they need and the ways to go about it. So I started from the beginning; I took the Old Testament with a bunch of freshmen.
Danny: Yeah, when I was already a professional librarian.
Erinn: And I just kind of could tell the students that were struggling. And so I made an intentional choice to, like, come up to them and be like, “Hey, yeah, how are you doing?” Like, did you turn that paper in? Oh, you didn’t? Why not? Like, let’s get started on this together. And I can help you. And so some of those students that I started with in the Old Testament just graduated.
Danny: Wow.
Erinn: And so to see that, like, from going from like a real student who just really struggles, yeah, not just in Old Testament, but in other classes, too. And then, like, pulling them in and helping them figure out their learning style and learn those research steps and evaluate the information that they’re looking for, teaching them how to research. And then to see them just graduate has been like one of those things. I’ve had a few of those students.
Danny: Yeah, I’ve done that. So yeah, that is so cool, because you’re reflecting Christ in that, like, you’re meeting people where they’re at, walking alongside them, and jumping in, and like, you stepped into the pool and said, “We’re going to work on this together.”
Erinn: Yeah, you walked into their class and were able to see, like, “These are the needs that these students have.” What can I do best? Or how can I use my skills and this opportunity to offer resources to help them?
The Student Success Center
Danny: Yeah, I know. So you have the Resource Center, and you have the Student Center that’s being developed. What are some things that are going to be impacting student life today here at Grace? And like, what are some ways that it will be reflecting Christ and the biblical-centered Grace Theology focus that we have here?
Erinn: Yeah. The exciting thing about the Student Success Center is that every student, whether they need it or not, or whether they think they need it or not, is going to have an assigned success coach from the moment they step on campus until the day that they graduate.
Danny: Yeah.
Erinn: And so that really allows us to reach students where they’re at and even, like, to celebrate. Sometimes those super successful students just fly completely under the radar, because they’re doing great. They don’t need that, like additional hand-holding or whatever. But we want to be able to, like, say, “Hey, I noticed that you got an A on that last paper, like, really good work.” And then the student who’s struggling, we can, and if they’re one of those ones, it’s like, “I don’t need help,” or “I shouldn’t need help, but I do,” then we can step into the hallway. And like you said, step into the pool, like go in with them and be like, Hey, you know, we see that your grades are reflecting that you’re struggling. What can we do to help you? What is it that you feel like you’re missing? Let’s come back to the center and have those like executive functioning workshops or even just have a sit-down conversation. Maybe the homework is not the actual thing. It’s just like the straw that broke the camel’s back. Maybe they have family problems, or they’re facing financial difficulties, or any number of things can be the actual problem more than the work itself or the content in the class. And you’re able to unpack that with each student.
Danny: Yeah.
Erinn: And show them that we’re thinking about them and we want to help them whether they think they should need it or not.
Danny: Yeah. Okay. your work goes beyond just the academic, like a learning world and education aspect. You’re going further and digging deep into people’s lives.
Erinn: Yeah.
Danny: That’s why we chose to call it the Student Success Center, the Academic Success Center, because we care about the success of the person as a whole. And that includes your academics, of course, because that’s where we are and what we’re doing.
Erinn: Yeah.
Danny: But it’s not just your identity and your worth, as it doesn’t revolve around your GPA. It revolves around you as a person made in the image of God. And so that’s where we’re starting in the hope that it will, you know, obviously focus a lot on academics, but we also like care about the person as a whole because they are a child of God, and we want them to see their worth in that first and then have that work through their academics and to success and ultimately graduation.
Balancing Compassion and Accountability
Danny: Yeah. Students are more than just a brain, right? They have experiences in life, and all that stuff has an impact on education and everything they’re doing and their relationships, all that stuff. I mean, there have been times in my personal life I’ve seen in my friends where, you know, they’re very smart, very intelligent people. They have the abilities to be able to do what they need to do. Right. But they have something that’s going on in the background or something that they’re struggling with, whatever it may be, that is preventing them or making it harder for them to be successful or excellent in doing the work that they are responsible for. Right. That’s one of those things that I feel a little bit passionate about because I work with students on a daily basis and walk alongside them. Sometimes I deal with students coming to me asking, like, I don’t know what my purpose is. I don’t know what my meaning of life is, or they have a struggle that they’re going through, and they don’t know how to get through it. And we pray together and all that stuff. And we read God’s word together. Sometimes it can come down to, like, responsibility. Right. It can come down to, like, I need to step up and do something and actually, you know, take effort and put effort into the work that I’m responsible for, despite what I’m going through or feeling. We can work that out. We can figure that out together. But still, at the end of the day, I’m a student, and I have to get my grades in. So with those conversations with the people that you work with and you help train the people that are going to be walking alongside students throughout their whole year, what kind of things like do you feel like kind of prepare them for or get them to understand like if a student is struggling in this way, but they need to get their work done? Right. what kind of tips would you have for someone in that seat in that chair?
Erinn: Yeah. And it kind of depends on each individual student. Some students need that tough love, like, “Hey, look, yeah I understand that you’re going through something, but you just have to sit down and do this.” And then some people maybe need a little bit of an approach, depending on, you know, maybe no one in their life has told them that they’re capable of doing it. And so finding that thing that that particular student needs, that’s going to be their motivation. And the best way to communicate with them is one thing that we go through. We have, you know, some of the more popular ones, like personality exams, where you can, like, figure out sort of what your strengths and weaknesses are, or your communication styles, where you’re the coaches who are in our student success center who are going to be certified as higher education coaches.
Danny: Oh, yeah.
Erinn: An organization. And so kind of that whole toolbox that we have is going to be available to coaches. And it’s been more like coaching from myself and the director of the center and then working with the two full coaches who are going to be in there. It’s all coming from that coaching model.
Danny: Yeah.
Erinn: You know, so from there I get coached right by my supervisor, and I have mentors in my personal life. And so that’s just kind of showing students that way of life, that having someone who’s there to walk alongside you is always going to be a beneficial thing. And it’s never like something that you should be ashamed of, or you should be like, “Everyone needs help.” Yes, I needed help.
Everyone Needs Help
Erinn: One of my favorite anecdotes is like a brain surgeon can’t operate on themself, right?
Danny: Yeah.
Erinn: They have all of the tools that they need, and they have all of the expertise and all of the education. But like when it comes down to it, they need help from another brain surgeon if they have a brain surgery that they have to have done. So even the experts need help from anyone. You know, it’s a universal thing to need and accept help. And that’s something that we’re hoping to build into the culture.
Danny: Yeah. There’s a reason why God created us to be in community together.
Erinn: Right.
Danny: We all have our unique talents or unique functions and are part of the body of Christ and come alongside each other. And we’re all under a crisis ahead. But like we’re working alongside each other, and we all need to lift each other up, build each other up, and be there for each other.
Erinn: Exactly.
Legacy and Impact
Danny: So you’ve already left a great stamp on this university. People love you, and they, you know, get excited to have conversations with you, and students have been impacted by the work that you’ve done. What if you were to leave here tomorrow, right? What is it like? And I’m not saying that you’re going to leave here tomorrow, but let’s just say hypothetically, if you’re leaving tomorrow, what is the legacy that you hope to have left here at Grace and in students’ lives and the staff and faculty’s lives?
Erinn: Oh, wow. That’s a deep question.
Danny: That’s what I’m here for. I’m here to probe deeper and unpack the juicy stuff.
Erinn: And I guess the legacy that I want to leave is one of, like, help-seeking behavior, right? Like the knowledge that it’s OK to need help, even if you’re doing fantastic, like you can still have a mentor, you can still have a coach, and you can still have a tutor. And so I really hope that that collaborative community of people helping each other is really what I want to leave behind.
Final Words of Wisdom
Danny: This would probably be our closing question. How for students walking in life and the messiness of it all and the responsibilities and the relationships, what advice would you give to them from your own experience, from what you’ve seen, and like, from your position as a librarian and just as a follower of Christ? What advice would you give to them to follow that example, to live that out in their own day-to-day life?
Erinn: Yeah, I think it’s finding someone who can help you and then finding someone that you can help. And that creates that cycle, right? Because then the person who is being helped by you can find someone that they can help. And all of it coming from, you know, from that biblical worldview, from that grace theology, like Jesus. Jesus found people to help him. And then they found people to help. But they were, and so having that is like, it’s community, right? Finding your community, finding a church family, finding a mentor, finding someone who needs to be mentored, and continuing that cycle. That’s what I would tell them to do.
Danny: Well, go out and do it and be a light to the world and share Christ’s name and glorify him with everything we do, right?
Erinn: Yep, exactly.
Danny: I couldn’t have ended it better than that. So thank you, Erinn, for taking the time out of your day to speak and chat with me and getting to know more about you. So all right.
